<![CDATA[ZionFireFriends - Jewish Roots]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/ Mon, 09 Mar 2026 05:20:10 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[looking for a way to support Israel?]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1084 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:07:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1084


Isaiah 40:1 is the home for the very first words sung in Handel's renowned oratorio, The Messiah. Handel and his lyricist were both Christian men and had studied enough of the Word to know how important God's chosen people were to Him. The whole concept of comforting His people is expressed in various parts of Isaiah. In 59:16, God sees that there was no man,and provided salvation by His own arm. In 61:2, part of the Redeemer's ministry is seen in the comforting of those in Zion who mourn.



How can those of us who are not in Israel properly or effectively comfort Israel? After doing a teaching at church where we talked about Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem, there was a need to help people find an outlet for blessing and comforting Jerusalem, to put feet and hands to our desires to help effect peace in individual lives.



As a result, we thought there might be others who find themselves in a similar situation. We can offer four ministries with whom we have had experience, that we would trust with our money and to be our hands and feet in the lives of people in the Land.



<URL url="http://www.icej.org/">International Christian Embassy -Jerusalem



<URL url="http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/">Bridges for Peace



<URL url="http://www.cfijerusalem.net/">Christian Friends of Israel



<URL url="http://www.davidstent.org/">Final Frontier Ministries (Avner & Rachel Boskey, Messianics living in Israel, reaching the Jews through fresh, original music)]]>


Isaiah 40:1 is the home for the very first words sung in Handel's renowned oratorio, The Messiah. Handel and his lyricist were both Christian men and had studied enough of the Word to know how important God's chosen people were to Him. The whole concept of comforting His people is expressed in various parts of Isaiah. In 59:16, God sees that there was no man,and provided salvation by His own arm. In 61:2, part of the Redeemer's ministry is seen in the comforting of those in Zion who mourn.



How can those of us who are not in Israel properly or effectively comfort Israel? After doing a teaching at church where we talked about Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem, there was a need to help people find an outlet for blessing and comforting Jerusalem, to put feet and hands to our desires to help effect peace in individual lives.



As a result, we thought there might be others who find themselves in a similar situation. We can offer four ministries with whom we have had experience, that we would trust with our money and to be our hands and feet in the lives of people in the Land.



<URL url="http://www.icej.org/">International Christian Embassy -Jerusalem



<URL url="http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/">Bridges for Peace



<URL url="http://www.cfijerusalem.net/">Christian Friends of Israel



<URL url="http://www.davidstent.org/">Final Frontier Ministries (Avner & Rachel Boskey, Messianics living in Israel, reaching the Jews through fresh, original music)]]> <![CDATA[Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1083 Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:18:00 +0000 DeanZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1083


We had a reading from Revelation 22:1-2 earlier in the month caught my attention.
Quote:Then he [the one sitting on the throne] showed me [John the Revelator] a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


There, we see a great boulevard with a river flowing from the throne. The river contains the water of life. On either side of the river was “the tree of life”. This seems to be a single creature rather than a bunch of similar trees lining the boulevard. The explanation of the tree is pretty neat. This tree evidently produces twelve different types of fruit, a different one for each month, and it produces leaves that bring healing to the nations. When I first reread this that Sunday, I did not hear it correctly and I was reminded of the passage from Isaiah 61. What I feel that I’ve discovered is one of those “on earth as it is in heaven” moments. We’re very familiar with v.1 of that chapter, but let’s look at a larger context.
Quote:The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,

    Because the LORD has anointed me

    To bring good news to the afflicted;

    He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,

    To proclaim liberty to captives

    And freedom to prisoners;

To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD

    And the day of vengeance of our God;

    To comfort all who mourn,

To grant those who mourn in Zion,

    Giving them a garland instead of ashes,

    The oil of gladness instead of mourning,

    The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting

    So they will be called oaks of righteousness,

    The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.

Then they will rebuild the ancient ruins,[/]

    They will raise up the former devastations;

    And [b]they will repair the ruined cities,

    The desolations of many generations.

Strangers will stand and pasture your flocks,

    And foreigners will be your farmers and your vinedressers.

But you will be called the priests of the LORD;

    You will be spoken of as ministers of our God

    You will eat the wealth of nations,

    And in their riches you will boast.

Instead of your shame you will have a double portion,

    And instead of humiliation they will shout for joy over their portion

    Therefore they will possess a double portion in their land,

    Everlasting joy will be theirs.



For I, the LORD, love justice,

    I hate robbery in the burnt offering [don’t steal or borrow from the tithe!];

    And I will faithfully give them their recompense

    And make an everlasting covenant with them [we know this as the New Covenant].

Then their offspring [of those who mourn in Zion: us, if we are mourners] will be known among the nations,

    And their descendants in the midst of the peoples.

    All who see them will recognize them

    Because they are the offspring whom the LORD has blessed.

I will rejoice greatly in the LORD,

    My soul will exult in my God;

    For He has clothed me with garments of salvation,

    He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness,

    As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland,

    And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

For as the earth brings forth its sprouts,

    And as a garden causes the things sown in it to spring up,

    So the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise

    To spring up before all the nations. (in the face of friend and enemy alike, a la Psalm 23.)[/b]


This is just all kinds of fun for me, and there is all sorts of wonderful symbolism and prophetic insight to be had here, weeks worth of teaching. For today, I want to concentrate mostly on the oaks of righteousness, and perhaps their primary reason for being, along with a couple of significant scriptural messages from God to us.



We learned in the Spring that God’s intention was for all of His children to all of their generations to celebrate His feasts and holy days. We see that reinforced in the writings of Zechariah the prophet where God declares blessings on those nations that go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles and profound troubles on those nations too proud to worship the God of the universe.


<CENTER>
*-~~~-*-~~~-*-~~~-*-~~~-*
</CENTER>



Psalm 122 is one of the Psalms of Ascent, or the Pilgrim Psalms. There are 15 in this series, 120 to 134. Four of them were written by King David, including Psalm 122. I often get all twisted up trying to figure out who’s talking to whom in the Psalms. These songs were traditionally sung by the Hebrews while they made their three-time a year treks up to Jerusalem. “UP to Jerusalem” is not a euphemism. To get to Jerusalem from ANYwhere in Israel, you have to go…well, up. At the southern and the northern ends of Israel, you start at sea level, at the Red and the Mediterranean Seas respectively. Jerusalem is 35 miles from the Mediterranean and about 15 miles from the Dead or Salt Sea. From the northern corner of the Dead Sea to Jerusalem is a change in elevation of more than 3350 feet! 3350 feet up in 15 miles long is a steep slope. It’s not the highest point in Israel, but it is still high and it is and always has been a destination.



Three times a year, observant sons of Israel made a trip and make a trip up to Jerusalem to celebrate the prescribed Festivals of the Lord. Tradition holds that these songs were the marching songs. “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord…” “I was glad when they said to me, ‘Let us go to the house of the Lord…’” As the folks walked to Jerusalem, as the mood struck them perhaps, they explored the emotions and spiritual truths found in these psalms. Bishop plans to spend some time in these psalms soon, so read them and think about pilgrimage to His holy mountain, to the place called Zion.



Psalm 122:6-9 is a bit of a wild ride, grammatically. Sometimes certain translations actually help us. This is a psalm that starts in exhortation, moves to declaration, and then ends in this amazing little teaching. Thomas translation: “Pray this way for the shalom of Yerushalayim” or “Pray this way for God’s shalom to be on the City of Shalom”. Pray=“to ask for, to beg for”; Peace=“completeness, soundness, welfare, peace”, but not absence of war or conflict; Jerusalem, Yerushalayim= “city of peace” or “teaching of peace”. Jesus actually defined peace best when He declared to the disciples, “My peace I give to you—it’s not the peace that the world knows that I give you.”



To pray is an interesting concept. This reminds me of the Syrophoenician woman in Matthew 15:21-28 where the woman prayed and kept on praying that Jesus would heal her demon-possessed daughter. The disciples asked Jesus to send her away because she would not quit SHOUTING AT THEM! She prayed with purpose and intention and with huge energy. Can we learn something about prayer from her? Probably. Crises drive us to our knees. Sometimes we remember to fall to our knees when we have a great joy or triumph. Most everyone I’ve ever talked to about this stuff confesses that they forget to return to the prayer closet when the prayers are quietly or dramatically answered. It’s a point of discipline that needs to be revisited often, I believe. How then, do we remember to pray for things that don’t affect us personally? Write it down? Ask Father to remind you? Pray whenever you happen to think about it (like RIGHT THEN!?!?)? Make it into your screen saver at work or your wallpaper on your computer. How do you make anything into a habit? Whatever works for you. The point is to pray, and in this case, for God’s shalom in that city of His. His idea.



King David is writing as the Spirit prompted, so He the Holy Spirit is charging us to pray for the shalom of God’s City. Look at what else is in this psalm.

Quote:Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:

    “May they prosper who love you.

"May peace be within your walls,

    And prosperity within your palaces.”

For the sake of my brothers and my friends,

    I will now say, “May peace be within you.”

For the sake of the house of the LORD our God,

    I will seek your good.

[Could this be twisted slightly? The house of the Lord is generally seen as the Temple,

    constructed of stones. I Peter 2:5 says that we’re living stones and being built into a

    spiritual house. Not theology, just a thought.]

I also want to bring one more really important portion of Scripture into our discussion. Please turn to Romans 11. This chapter is Paul speaking to believers, probably both Jews and Gentiles, and is saying that God’s not done with Israel. You and I need to keep his words and thoughts from this chapter in mind when we hear people say things like “God’s done with the Jews. We the Church replaced them.” Not so. Paul spells it out pretty well. It’s all very exciting to me, but this business of provoking the Jews to jealousy and allowing that jealousy to bring them to new life in their Messiah? THAT’s exciting to me! Look at v.15 to see what the final revival will look like: “For if [the rejection of Jesus as Messiah] is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?” The implication from Paul is that Jews need Messiah as much as Gentiles. While he was an apostle to and for the Gentiles, he still had in the back of his mind that through his work, he might provoke his flesh and blood, his countrymen, the Jews of Israel, to jealousy or to emulation (11:14, KJV, same Greek word). How can we share in Paul’s ministry in this regard? Salvation through the Good News of Messiah tabernacling among men, first to the Jew and then to the rest of us. Jealousy resulting in emulating Paul’s faith in Jesus as Messiah. How can we do that? It must absolutely be an action, not a passive hope or wish.



I believe that the minimum actions that each of us as believers should take are two, maybe three. First, as we just read, we do need to pray for the Shalom of Jerusalem. Regular, diligent, fervent, heartfelt prayer. The kind of prayer that you pray for someone you know and deeply love. Mike Caughron against cancer prayer. Pete Graeff against debility prayer. Second, the very first words of Handel’s amazing oratorio, The Messiah, are “‘Comfort ye My people,’ saith your God.” How can we comfort His people? Saw a great bumper sticker this week, “Wherever I stand, I stand with Israel”. I don’t want this to be political, that’s a different teaching. Find ways to comfort God’s people, Israel—not the country, the people! Maybe make a small donation to a reputable organization that has feet on the ground in Israel who provide the hands and feet of Jesus to needy folks in Israel, especially the Jews, but not just the Jews. We have supported one group for years who has a special outreach to Holocaust survivors and their families. Food, personal visits, paying utility bills, and other comforting activities. Those are both fairly easy, minimal-sacrifice-needed kinds of actions, and darned good ones. The third, “maybe” activity depends on you keeping your eyes open in your world activities like work, shopping, and community involvement: Do you know people of Jewish descent or practicing Jews? Make a friend! This means learning kid names, religious holidays, meaningful times in their lives and learning how to befriend a Jew. No need to preach, just be a friend. A GOOD friend. When they see you’re serious, eventually they will want to know why, and then you have permission to say, “Because I love what my God loves, Israel and the Jews.”



Discussions about Messiah won’t be far behind.]]>


We had a reading from Revelation 22:1-2 earlier in the month caught my attention.
Quote:Then he [the one sitting on the throne] showed me [John the Revelator] a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


There, we see a great boulevard with a river flowing from the throne. The river contains the water of life. On either side of the river was “the tree of life”. This seems to be a single creature rather than a bunch of similar trees lining the boulevard. The explanation of the tree is pretty neat. This tree evidently produces twelve different types of fruit, a different one for each month, and it produces leaves that bring healing to the nations. When I first reread this that Sunday, I did not hear it correctly and I was reminded of the passage from Isaiah 61. What I feel that I’ve discovered is one of those “on earth as it is in heaven” moments. We’re very familiar with v.1 of that chapter, but let’s look at a larger context.
Quote:The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,

    Because the LORD has anointed me

    To bring good news to the afflicted;

    He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,

    To proclaim liberty to captives

    And freedom to prisoners;

To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD

    And the day of vengeance of our God;

    To comfort all who mourn,

To grant those who mourn in Zion,

    Giving them a garland instead of ashes,

    The oil of gladness instead of mourning,

    The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting

    So they will be called oaks of righteousness,

    The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.

Then they will rebuild the ancient ruins,[/]

    They will raise up the former devastations;

    And [b]they will repair the ruined cities,

    The desolations of many generations.

Strangers will stand and pasture your flocks,

    And foreigners will be your farmers and your vinedressers.

But you will be called the priests of the LORD;

    You will be spoken of as ministers of our God

    You will eat the wealth of nations,

    And in their riches you will boast.

Instead of your shame you will have a double portion,

    And instead of humiliation they will shout for joy over their portion

    Therefore they will possess a double portion in their land,

    Everlasting joy will be theirs.



For I, the LORD, love justice,

    I hate robbery in the burnt offering [don’t steal or borrow from the tithe!];

    And I will faithfully give them their recompense

    And make an everlasting covenant with them [we know this as the New Covenant].

Then their offspring [of those who mourn in Zion: us, if we are mourners] will be known among the nations,

    And their descendants in the midst of the peoples.

    All who see them will recognize them

    Because they are the offspring whom the LORD has blessed.

I will rejoice greatly in the LORD,

    My soul will exult in my God;

    For He has clothed me with garments of salvation,

    He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness,

    As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland,

    And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

For as the earth brings forth its sprouts,

    And as a garden causes the things sown in it to spring up,

    So the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise

    To spring up before all the nations. (in the face of friend and enemy alike, a la Psalm 23.)[/b]


This is just all kinds of fun for me, and there is all sorts of wonderful symbolism and prophetic insight to be had here, weeks worth of teaching. For today, I want to concentrate mostly on the oaks of righteousness, and perhaps their primary reason for being, along with a couple of significant scriptural messages from God to us.



We learned in the Spring that God’s intention was for all of His children to all of their generations to celebrate His feasts and holy days. We see that reinforced in the writings of Zechariah the prophet where God declares blessings on those nations that go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles and profound troubles on those nations too proud to worship the God of the universe.


<CENTER>
*-~~~-*-~~~-*-~~~-*-~~~-*
</CENTER>



Psalm 122 is one of the Psalms of Ascent, or the Pilgrim Psalms. There are 15 in this series, 120 to 134. Four of them were written by King David, including Psalm 122. I often get all twisted up trying to figure out who’s talking to whom in the Psalms. These songs were traditionally sung by the Hebrews while they made their three-time a year treks up to Jerusalem. “UP to Jerusalem” is not a euphemism. To get to Jerusalem from ANYwhere in Israel, you have to go…well, up. At the southern and the northern ends of Israel, you start at sea level, at the Red and the Mediterranean Seas respectively. Jerusalem is 35 miles from the Mediterranean and about 15 miles from the Dead or Salt Sea. From the northern corner of the Dead Sea to Jerusalem is a change in elevation of more than 3350 feet! 3350 feet up in 15 miles long is a steep slope. It’s not the highest point in Israel, but it is still high and it is and always has been a destination.



Three times a year, observant sons of Israel made a trip and make a trip up to Jerusalem to celebrate the prescribed Festivals of the Lord. Tradition holds that these songs were the marching songs. “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord…” “I was glad when they said to me, ‘Let us go to the house of the Lord…’” As the folks walked to Jerusalem, as the mood struck them perhaps, they explored the emotions and spiritual truths found in these psalms. Bishop plans to spend some time in these psalms soon, so read them and think about pilgrimage to His holy mountain, to the place called Zion.



Psalm 122:6-9 is a bit of a wild ride, grammatically. Sometimes certain translations actually help us. This is a psalm that starts in exhortation, moves to declaration, and then ends in this amazing little teaching. Thomas translation: “Pray this way for the shalom of Yerushalayim” or “Pray this way for God’s shalom to be on the City of Shalom”. Pray=“to ask for, to beg for”; Peace=“completeness, soundness, welfare, peace”, but not absence of war or conflict; Jerusalem, Yerushalayim= “city of peace” or “teaching of peace”. Jesus actually defined peace best when He declared to the disciples, “My peace I give to you—it’s not the peace that the world knows that I give you.”



To pray is an interesting concept. This reminds me of the Syrophoenician woman in Matthew 15:21-28 where the woman prayed and kept on praying that Jesus would heal her demon-possessed daughter. The disciples asked Jesus to send her away because she would not quit SHOUTING AT THEM! She prayed with purpose and intention and with huge energy. Can we learn something about prayer from her? Probably. Crises drive us to our knees. Sometimes we remember to fall to our knees when we have a great joy or triumph. Most everyone I’ve ever talked to about this stuff confesses that they forget to return to the prayer closet when the prayers are quietly or dramatically answered. It’s a point of discipline that needs to be revisited often, I believe. How then, do we remember to pray for things that don’t affect us personally? Write it down? Ask Father to remind you? Pray whenever you happen to think about it (like RIGHT THEN!?!?)? Make it into your screen saver at work or your wallpaper on your computer. How do you make anything into a habit? Whatever works for you. The point is to pray, and in this case, for God’s shalom in that city of His. His idea.



King David is writing as the Spirit prompted, so He the Holy Spirit is charging us to pray for the shalom of God’s City. Look at what else is in this psalm.

Quote:Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:

    “May they prosper who love you.

"May peace be within your walls,

    And prosperity within your palaces.”

For the sake of my brothers and my friends,

    I will now say, “May peace be within you.”

For the sake of the house of the LORD our God,

    I will seek your good.

[Could this be twisted slightly? The house of the Lord is generally seen as the Temple,

    constructed of stones. I Peter 2:5 says that we’re living stones and being built into a

    spiritual house. Not theology, just a thought.]

I also want to bring one more really important portion of Scripture into our discussion. Please turn to Romans 11. This chapter is Paul speaking to believers, probably both Jews and Gentiles, and is saying that God’s not done with Israel. You and I need to keep his words and thoughts from this chapter in mind when we hear people say things like “God’s done with the Jews. We the Church replaced them.” Not so. Paul spells it out pretty well. It’s all very exciting to me, but this business of provoking the Jews to jealousy and allowing that jealousy to bring them to new life in their Messiah? THAT’s exciting to me! Look at v.15 to see what the final revival will look like: “For if [the rejection of Jesus as Messiah] is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?” The implication from Paul is that Jews need Messiah as much as Gentiles. While he was an apostle to and for the Gentiles, he still had in the back of his mind that through his work, he might provoke his flesh and blood, his countrymen, the Jews of Israel, to jealousy or to emulation (11:14, KJV, same Greek word). How can we share in Paul’s ministry in this regard? Salvation through the Good News of Messiah tabernacling among men, first to the Jew and then to the rest of us. Jealousy resulting in emulating Paul’s faith in Jesus as Messiah. How can we do that? It must absolutely be an action, not a passive hope or wish.



I believe that the minimum actions that each of us as believers should take are two, maybe three. First, as we just read, we do need to pray for the Shalom of Jerusalem. Regular, diligent, fervent, heartfelt prayer. The kind of prayer that you pray for someone you know and deeply love. Mike Caughron against cancer prayer. Pete Graeff against debility prayer. Second, the very first words of Handel’s amazing oratorio, The Messiah, are “‘Comfort ye My people,’ saith your God.” How can we comfort His people? Saw a great bumper sticker this week, “Wherever I stand, I stand with Israel”. I don’t want this to be political, that’s a different teaching. Find ways to comfort God’s people, Israel—not the country, the people! Maybe make a small donation to a reputable organization that has feet on the ground in Israel who provide the hands and feet of Jesus to needy folks in Israel, especially the Jews, but not just the Jews. We have supported one group for years who has a special outreach to Holocaust survivors and their families. Food, personal visits, paying utility bills, and other comforting activities. Those are both fairly easy, minimal-sacrifice-needed kinds of actions, and darned good ones. The third, “maybe” activity depends on you keeping your eyes open in your world activities like work, shopping, and community involvement: Do you know people of Jewish descent or practicing Jews? Make a friend! This means learning kid names, religious holidays, meaningful times in their lives and learning how to befriend a Jew. No need to preach, just be a friend. A GOOD friend. When they see you’re serious, eventually they will want to know why, and then you have permission to say, “Because I love what my God loves, Israel and the Jews.”



Discussions about Messiah won’t be far behind.]]> <![CDATA[Pentecost, Shavuot & First Fruits]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1042 Sat, 02 May 2009 16:58:00 +0000 DeanZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1042


This is exciting stuff. I'm writing the copy now. Stay tuned for the explanation and what I think is some info that will bless you!]]>


This is exciting stuff. I'm writing the copy now. Stay tuned for the explanation and what I think is some info that will bless you!]]> <![CDATA[Carter meets with Hamas leaders]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=953 Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:42:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=953 Quote:Carter goes ahead with Hamas meetings



By ICEJ News



18 Apr 2008

Former US President Jimmy Carter went ahead with plans to meet with Hamas leaders this week, calling Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip an "atrocity” after talks with Hamas officials in Cairo on Thursday and then heading for a rendezvous with the terror militia’s top figure Khaled Mashaal in Damascus on Friday. Earlier this week, he tried to play both sides of the fence by visiting Sderot and decrying Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel as “despicable crimes.” Despite sharp rebukes from the Israeli and American governments, Carter defended his controversial meetings with Hamas, saying it was necessary to talk to all parties to achieve peace. "Israelis are suffering as well as Palestinians and they both need peace," he said in Cairo yesterday. “At the same time, if you live in Gaza, you know that for every Israeli killed in any kind of combat, between 30 to 40 Palestinians are killed because of the extreme military capability of Israel," Carter insisted. Angered over Carter’s defiance of US laws prohibiting contact with Hamas as a terrorist organization, some members of Congress are calling for Carter’s passport to be revoked and for a cut-off of public funds to the Atlanta, Georgia-based Carter Center.
I'm outraged. And ashamed that a Christian former president can be so naive as to think it is a good idea to give world credibility to terrorists by lending them connection to his stature as an ex US president. He even went so far as to place a wreath on Yassir Arafats grave, one of the most murderous, perverted terrorists in recent times.



Carter has described the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as "apartheid" and condemns Israel for "crimes" against Gaza, when they relocated every Jew out of there, left them industries, and continue to supply the area with food and fuel aid. What other nation woudl do that while having rockets shot at them every day? It's just maddening, and no one seem to have a roll of duct tape sticky enough to shut the guy up.



Carter is undermining the current US administration in some ill-conceived effort to establish himself as a world peacemaker. I think it brings shame on the US and shame on the Church everytime he talks about being a Christian.]]> Quote:Carter goes ahead with Hamas meetings



By ICEJ News



18 Apr 2008

Former US President Jimmy Carter went ahead with plans to meet with Hamas leaders this week, calling Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip an "atrocity” after talks with Hamas officials in Cairo on Thursday and then heading for a rendezvous with the terror militia’s top figure Khaled Mashaal in Damascus on Friday. Earlier this week, he tried to play both sides of the fence by visiting Sderot and decrying Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel as “despicable crimes.” Despite sharp rebukes from the Israeli and American governments, Carter defended his controversial meetings with Hamas, saying it was necessary to talk to all parties to achieve peace. "Israelis are suffering as well as Palestinians and they both need peace," he said in Cairo yesterday. “At the same time, if you live in Gaza, you know that for every Israeli killed in any kind of combat, between 30 to 40 Palestinians are killed because of the extreme military capability of Israel," Carter insisted. Angered over Carter’s defiance of US laws prohibiting contact with Hamas as a terrorist organization, some members of Congress are calling for Carter’s passport to be revoked and for a cut-off of public funds to the Atlanta, Georgia-based Carter Center.
I'm outraged. And ashamed that a Christian former president can be so naive as to think it is a good idea to give world credibility to terrorists by lending them connection to his stature as an ex US president. He even went so far as to place a wreath on Yassir Arafats grave, one of the most murderous, perverted terrorists in recent times.



Carter has described the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as "apartheid" and condemns Israel for "crimes" against Gaza, when they relocated every Jew out of there, left them industries, and continue to supply the area with food and fuel aid. What other nation woudl do that while having rockets shot at them every day? It's just maddening, and no one seem to have a roll of duct tape sticky enough to shut the guy up.



Carter is undermining the current US administration in some ill-conceived effort to establish himself as a world peacemaker. I think it brings shame on the US and shame on the Church everytime he talks about being a Christian.]]> <![CDATA[Important Legal Ruling In Israel]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=952 Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:59:00 +0000 Dave]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=952


See <URL url="http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/359362.aspx">http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/359362.aspx and <URL url="http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/358897.aspx">http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/358897.aspx for more information.



It was held that the government could not legally block aliyah of people with a Jewish father or grandfather on the grounds that they are messianic.



The feeling is that this is a key victory over discrimination against believers by the Israeli establishment, but there is still plenty of work to be done and much prayer is needed.]]>


See <URL url="http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/359362.aspx">http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/359362.aspx and <URL url="http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/358897.aspx">http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/358897.aspx for more information.



It was held that the government could not legally block aliyah of people with a Jewish father or grandfather on the grounds that they are messianic.



The feeling is that this is a key victory over discrimination against believers by the Israeli establishment, but there is still plenty of work to be done and much prayer is needed.]]> <![CDATA[Hanukkah - 'tis the season to be oily....]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=890 Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:13:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=890

Quote:The only mention of Hanukkah in the Bible is found not in the Old Testament but in the New Testament, John 10:22-23 to be exact. The reason the Feast of Dedication is not mentioned in the Old Testament is because the events that created the Feast of Dedication took place during the time between the writing of the Old Testament and the writing of the New Testament.



John 10:22-23 says, “Now it was the Feast of Dedication [Hanukkah] in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.” From this we know that the festival of Hanukkah was already being observed during the time that Jesus was walking here on earth and that He celebrated it.



Many centuries ago the Holy Land was ruled by Syrian-Greeks called Seleucids who wanted to force the people of Israel to become Hellenized, or Greek-thinking and acting. A small group of brave and determined Jews called the “Maccabees” went to war with the Greeks over this, battling one of the mightiest armies on earth at that time – and defeated them. They drove the Greeks from the land, reclaimed the Holy Temple in Jerusalem (which had been desecrated by the Seleucids) and rededicated it to the service of God.



Before the Holy Temple could be used once again for worship to the one True God – for the enemy had defiled the Temple by offering up unholy sacrifices to false gods – it had to be thoroughly cleansed.



Once the cleansing was complete, the Jews decided to light the seven-branched Menorah, which was to burn continually before the Lord and was never to go out. But in order to do this, they needed oil that was prepared under conditions of ritual purity.



Imagine their dismay when they discovered they only found a single cruse of olive oil that had escaped contamination by the Greeks. But they were determined to reestablish the Temple for God, and so they lit the Menorah using that single cruse of oil. And now imagine their joy and awe as they watched as an eight-day miracle unfolded before their very eyes as the oil that should have lasted for only one day lasted for an entire eight days – the exact time needed for ritually pure oil to be prepared!



The Feast of Dedication – Hanukkah – celebrates two miracles: First, the victory of a small greatly outnumbered army of Jews (the Maccabees) over the strong and forceful Greek army. The Jews had taken their stand for their faith, their God, and their way of life – and won.



The second miracle was that of the Menorah and the light that burned for eight days (which should have lasted for only one day), allowing a ritually pure oil to be created by those assigned to do so. Having the Menorah lit continuously in the Temple was extremely important to worship in the Temple.



During this Festival people often reflect on the brave stand that the Maccabees took for their faith in God and also for their way of life and often rededicate their lives to live for God.



The Menorah that is used today during Hanukkah is not the seven-branched Menorah that is used in the Temple for worship, but rather a specially created nine-branched Menorah which holds nine candles. The middle candle is known as the shamash (attendant candle or servant). It is lit first and is used to light the other candles for each of the eight nights.



On the first night, the shamash is lit along with one other candle that is placed in the far right branch of the Menorah. On the second night, starting from the far right, two candles are lit from the shamash and continue until all nine candles are lit on the final night.



Jewish families recite beautiful prayers during the lighting ceremony, offering praise and thanksgiving to God for “delivering the strong into the hands of the weak, the many into the hands of the few...the wicked into the hands of the righteous.”



This is a joyous time of celebration for family and friends, and there are many festive gatherings during this time of remembering miracles.



Foods that are cooked in oil and are eaten with great abandon to diets and cholesterol, and children and adults alike play many games, including the favorite, dreidel.



Dreidel is a four-sided top that has different letters painted on each of its side. With one letter on each side, they make up the acronym for the phrase, “A great miracle happened there.”



Why is this game so linked with Hanukkah? During the rule of the Greek-Syrians, studying the Torah was outlawed and if anyone was caught, the “crime” was punishable by death. So, when the children were studying the Torah and they saw a Greek patrol come by, they would quickly hide the Torah and take out a dreidel and began playing. So it is a reminder of the brave children who had the courage to study the Torah even during such dangerous times.



In playing the game, each player is given pieces of candy and each child places one candy in the middle of the group. Then each takes a turn at spinning the dreidel. When it comes to a stop, one of the letters is on the top, and the player would have to do whatever the letter instructed. (Nun = nothing happens; Gimel = player takes all candy in the “pot”; Hey – player takes ½ the pot; and Shin = player must put one piece of candy in the “pot.”) The player with the most candy wins!



Hanukkah is a family holiday filled with joy and also filled with symbolism, reminding all of the miracles that God brings to our lives.



For Christians the question is How does Jesus fit into the Festival? John 1:1-11 refers to Jesus as the “Light of the World.” Acts 4:27 refers to Jesus as God’s Holy Servant. Hanukkah is also referred to as the Festival of Lights, and as the candles are lit first by the shamash (which means servant), Jesus is seen as the Servant and Light that will light the whole of mankind.

<FONT font="Times">Jerusalem Prayer Team

P.O. Box 210489 Bedford, TX 76095

FAX: 817-285-09621-800-825-3872

<URL url="http://jerusalemprayerteam.org">http://jerusalemprayerteam.org

Dr. Tim LaHaye, Mrs. Anne Graham Lotz, Mr. Pat Boone, Mr. Bill McCartney, Ms. Kay Arthur, Rev. Tommy Tenney, Dr. A.R. Bernard, and Dr. Jay Sekulow are just a few of the more than 300 Christian Leaders who are part of the Jerusalem Prayer Team. The Jerusalem Prayer Team is a non-profit organization with 501c3 tax exempt status. The Jerusalem Prayer Team is a prayer movement of people around the world. It is a non-denominational organization. It receives no support from the Nation of Israel. Donations are tax deductible. The mission of the Jerusalem Prayer Team: To guard, defend and protect the Jewish people and Eretz Yisrael until Israel is secure, and until the Redeemer comes to Zion. </FONT>



<COLOR color="green">Unsubstantiated Theorem: They really didn't need a miracle to keep the lamps burning for 8 days...they could have just squeezed out a latke.</COLOR> :lol:



:dreidel:]]>

Quote:The only mention of Hanukkah in the Bible is found not in the Old Testament but in the New Testament, John 10:22-23 to be exact. The reason the Feast of Dedication is not mentioned in the Old Testament is because the events that created the Feast of Dedication took place during the time between the writing of the Old Testament and the writing of the New Testament.



John 10:22-23 says, “Now it was the Feast of Dedication [Hanukkah] in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.” From this we know that the festival of Hanukkah was already being observed during the time that Jesus was walking here on earth and that He celebrated it.



Many centuries ago the Holy Land was ruled by Syrian-Greeks called Seleucids who wanted to force the people of Israel to become Hellenized, or Greek-thinking and acting. A small group of brave and determined Jews called the “Maccabees” went to war with the Greeks over this, battling one of the mightiest armies on earth at that time – and defeated them. They drove the Greeks from the land, reclaimed the Holy Temple in Jerusalem (which had been desecrated by the Seleucids) and rededicated it to the service of God.



Before the Holy Temple could be used once again for worship to the one True God – for the enemy had defiled the Temple by offering up unholy sacrifices to false gods – it had to be thoroughly cleansed.



Once the cleansing was complete, the Jews decided to light the seven-branched Menorah, which was to burn continually before the Lord and was never to go out. But in order to do this, they needed oil that was prepared under conditions of ritual purity.



Imagine their dismay when they discovered they only found a single cruse of olive oil that had escaped contamination by the Greeks. But they were determined to reestablish the Temple for God, and so they lit the Menorah using that single cruse of oil. And now imagine their joy and awe as they watched as an eight-day miracle unfolded before their very eyes as the oil that should have lasted for only one day lasted for an entire eight days – the exact time needed for ritually pure oil to be prepared!



The Feast of Dedication – Hanukkah – celebrates two miracles: First, the victory of a small greatly outnumbered army of Jews (the Maccabees) over the strong and forceful Greek army. The Jews had taken their stand for their faith, their God, and their way of life – and won.



The second miracle was that of the Menorah and the light that burned for eight days (which should have lasted for only one day), allowing a ritually pure oil to be created by those assigned to do so. Having the Menorah lit continuously in the Temple was extremely important to worship in the Temple.



During this Festival people often reflect on the brave stand that the Maccabees took for their faith in God and also for their way of life and often rededicate their lives to live for God.



The Menorah that is used today during Hanukkah is not the seven-branched Menorah that is used in the Temple for worship, but rather a specially created nine-branched Menorah which holds nine candles. The middle candle is known as the shamash (attendant candle or servant). It is lit first and is used to light the other candles for each of the eight nights.



On the first night, the shamash is lit along with one other candle that is placed in the far right branch of the Menorah. On the second night, starting from the far right, two candles are lit from the shamash and continue until all nine candles are lit on the final night.



Jewish families recite beautiful prayers during the lighting ceremony, offering praise and thanksgiving to God for “delivering the strong into the hands of the weak, the many into the hands of the few...the wicked into the hands of the righteous.”



This is a joyous time of celebration for family and friends, and there are many festive gatherings during this time of remembering miracles.



Foods that are cooked in oil and are eaten with great abandon to diets and cholesterol, and children and adults alike play many games, including the favorite, dreidel.



Dreidel is a four-sided top that has different letters painted on each of its side. With one letter on each side, they make up the acronym for the phrase, “A great miracle happened there.”



Why is this game so linked with Hanukkah? During the rule of the Greek-Syrians, studying the Torah was outlawed and if anyone was caught, the “crime” was punishable by death. So, when the children were studying the Torah and they saw a Greek patrol come by, they would quickly hide the Torah and take out a dreidel and began playing. So it is a reminder of the brave children who had the courage to study the Torah even during such dangerous times.



In playing the game, each player is given pieces of candy and each child places one candy in the middle of the group. Then each takes a turn at spinning the dreidel. When it comes to a stop, one of the letters is on the top, and the player would have to do whatever the letter instructed. (Nun = nothing happens; Gimel = player takes all candy in the “pot”; Hey – player takes ½ the pot; and Shin = player must put one piece of candy in the “pot.”) The player with the most candy wins!



Hanukkah is a family holiday filled with joy and also filled with symbolism, reminding all of the miracles that God brings to our lives.



For Christians the question is How does Jesus fit into the Festival? John 1:1-11 refers to Jesus as the “Light of the World.” Acts 4:27 refers to Jesus as God’s Holy Servant. Hanukkah is also referred to as the Festival of Lights, and as the candles are lit first by the shamash (which means servant), Jesus is seen as the Servant and Light that will light the whole of mankind.

<FONT font="Times">Jerusalem Prayer Team

P.O. Box 210489 Bedford, TX 76095

FAX: 817-285-09621-800-825-3872

<URL url="http://jerusalemprayerteam.org">http://jerusalemprayerteam.org

Dr. Tim LaHaye, Mrs. Anne Graham Lotz, Mr. Pat Boone, Mr. Bill McCartney, Ms. Kay Arthur, Rev. Tommy Tenney, Dr. A.R. Bernard, and Dr. Jay Sekulow are just a few of the more than 300 Christian Leaders who are part of the Jerusalem Prayer Team. The Jerusalem Prayer Team is a non-profit organization with 501c3 tax exempt status. The Jerusalem Prayer Team is a prayer movement of people around the world. It is a non-denominational organization. It receives no support from the Nation of Israel. Donations are tax deductible. The mission of the Jerusalem Prayer Team: To guard, defend and protect the Jewish people and Eretz Yisrael until Israel is secure, and until the Redeemer comes to Zion. </FONT>



<COLOR color="green">Unsubstantiated Theorem: They really didn't need a miracle to keep the lamps burning for 8 days...they could have just squeezed out a latke.</COLOR> :lol:



:dreidel:]]> <![CDATA[honoring God in the arts ...]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=866 Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:45:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=866

<CENTER>
<IMG content="http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5619/tetragrammatonak3.jpg">[Image: tetragrammatonak3.jpg] Tetragrammaton
</CENTER>

One area of controversy can be the tetragramaton... the 4 Hebrew letters that represent God's name. Some Jews consider it too holy to be spoken, so they pronounce it "Adonai" (the Lord) or "Ha Shem" (the Name). Also, anything carrying "the Name" must be treated with honor, and when retired, destroyed in a specific way. As Christians seeking to bring honor to the Lord, we might wonder if it is even wise to use those 4 Hebrew letters. Some will warn against it, saying that it would be an offense to observant Jews. The truth really is that it can be very honoring to display the Name for both the Christian and the Jewish community.



I have a set of banners of the Covenant Names of God that have the tetragramaton of God's Name displayed on the banners, along with the english translation and other illuminating symbols and scriptures. A Jewish person seeing the banners would read them as "Adonai Shalom", 'Ha Shem Nissi" etc., and would not be offended by seeing the Name used on a Christian banner. They would probably, as a friend of mine pointed out, be more offended by the Name being pronounced out-loud as Yah-way or Jeh-hoe-vah. But writing out the four Hebrew letters is not a problem, as it is not being physically spoken.



Another area that comes under debate is the use of the tallit. Is it appropriate to use an actual tallit in our presentations? Just be aware that when using the tallit dramatically or in a dance choreography, that you should be careful not to allow the fringes (tzit-tzit) to touch the floor. Some dancers I know have "tallit-like" garments constructed so that the sense of using a tallit is obvious, but they are not using an actual tallit with knotted fringes. It is a matter of knowing a bit about the customs and idioms and being as respectful as possible as we minister with these important symbols.



<IMG content="http://www.zionfire.com/Pix/img085.gif">[Image: img085.gif] Example of one of the Covenant Name banners]]>

<CENTER>
<IMG content="http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5619/tetragrammatonak3.jpg">[Image: tetragrammatonak3.jpg] Tetragrammaton
</CENTER>

One area of controversy can be the tetragramaton... the 4 Hebrew letters that represent God's name. Some Jews consider it too holy to be spoken, so they pronounce it "Adonai" (the Lord) or "Ha Shem" (the Name). Also, anything carrying "the Name" must be treated with honor, and when retired, destroyed in a specific way. As Christians seeking to bring honor to the Lord, we might wonder if it is even wise to use those 4 Hebrew letters. Some will warn against it, saying that it would be an offense to observant Jews. The truth really is that it can be very honoring to display the Name for both the Christian and the Jewish community.



I have a set of banners of the Covenant Names of God that have the tetragramaton of God's Name displayed on the banners, along with the english translation and other illuminating symbols and scriptures. A Jewish person seeing the banners would read them as "Adonai Shalom", 'Ha Shem Nissi" etc., and would not be offended by seeing the Name used on a Christian banner. They would probably, as a friend of mine pointed out, be more offended by the Name being pronounced out-loud as Yah-way or Jeh-hoe-vah. But writing out the four Hebrew letters is not a problem, as it is not being physically spoken.



Another area that comes under debate is the use of the tallit. Is it appropriate to use an actual tallit in our presentations? Just be aware that when using the tallit dramatically or in a dance choreography, that you should be careful not to allow the fringes (tzit-tzit) to touch the floor. Some dancers I know have "tallit-like" garments constructed so that the sense of using a tallit is obvious, but they are not using an actual tallit with knotted fringes. It is a matter of knowing a bit about the customs and idioms and being as respectful as possible as we minister with these important symbols.



<IMG content="http://www.zionfire.com/Pix/img085.gif">[Image: img085.gif] Example of one of the Covenant Name banners]]> <![CDATA[80,000 participate in Jerusalem ICEJ march]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=853 Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:58:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=853




<URL url="http://www.icej.org/mlm/lt/t_go.php?i=1121&e=MTczNDQ=&l=-http--www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite--Q-cid--E-1191257216407--A-pagename--E-JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull">Jerusalem Post - 80,000 attend march



<URL url="http://www.icej.org/mlm/lt/t_go.php?i=1121&e=MTczNDQ=&l=-http--www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp--Q-Page--E-/ForeignBureaus/archive/200710/INT20071003c.html">CNS News - Despite rabbinical warning, Israelis applaud Christian Pilgrims



Read about the Jerico wall re-enactment presented at En Gedi as part of the feast celebration this year:

<URL url="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1686">http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1686]]>




<URL url="http://www.icej.org/mlm/lt/t_go.php?i=1121&e=MTczNDQ=&l=-http--www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite--Q-cid--E-1191257216407--A-pagename--E-JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull">Jerusalem Post - 80,000 attend march



<URL url="http://www.icej.org/mlm/lt/t_go.php?i=1121&e=MTczNDQ=&l=-http--www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp--Q-Page--E-/ForeignBureaus/archive/200710/INT20071003c.html">CNS News - Despite rabbinical warning, Israelis applaud Christian Pilgrims



Read about the Jerico wall re-enactment presented at En Gedi as part of the feast celebration this year:

<URL url="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1686">http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1686]]> <![CDATA[how is the tabernacle fulfilled in the new covenant?]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=821 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:32:00 +0000 daysofelijah]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=821 <![CDATA[recognizing Replacement Theology]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=816 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:37:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=816


Replacement theology is not just intellectual theory....it produces persecution for Israel as well. This thinking is behind the shameful attempts of Christianity to purge the earth of the Jewish people in such historical events as the Crusades and the Holocaust. Although not directly responsible for the holocaust, the Church's latent anti-Semitism prevented the church from opposing Hitler's terrible plan to annihilate the Jewish people. Except for small pockets of believers, the church remained silent in the face of the genocide.



As we study and discover the roots of our faith, the questions that come up often have to do with changes the Church has made that diverge current practices from what was established in the Torah. This can often be attributed to the influence of Replacement Theology. This thread is to question, identify and discuss those things and bring them to awareness.



To get us started, here is a comment Dave made on another thread:
<QUOTE author="Dave">
Dave Wrote:The church has either changed the Jewish festivals beyond recognition, or has just ignored them completely. This, in my view, is a subtle form of replacement theology. It says that the practices and traditions of the church are superior to and have superceded those of Israel, which carries the implication that the church has superceded Israel...



...So, in order to fully exorcise the ghost of those anti-semitic early church figures who banned believers from anything Jewish (and whose influence continues today), the church is going to have to significantly change its ways. To say "your people shall be my people" is meaningless unless you say "your festivals shall be my festivals".
]]>


Replacement theology is not just intellectual theory....it produces persecution for Israel as well. This thinking is behind the shameful attempts of Christianity to purge the earth of the Jewish people in such historical events as the Crusades and the Holocaust. Although not directly responsible for the holocaust, the Church's latent anti-Semitism prevented the church from opposing Hitler's terrible plan to annihilate the Jewish people. Except for small pockets of believers, the church remained silent in the face of the genocide.



As we study and discover the roots of our faith, the questions that come up often have to do with changes the Church has made that diverge current practices from what was established in the Torah. This can often be attributed to the influence of Replacement Theology. This thread is to question, identify and discuss those things and bring them to awareness.



To get us started, here is a comment Dave made on another thread:
<QUOTE author="Dave">
Dave Wrote:The church has either changed the Jewish festivals beyond recognition, or has just ignored them completely. This, in my view, is a subtle form of replacement theology. It says that the practices and traditions of the church are superior to and have superceded those of Israel, which carries the implication that the church has superceded Israel...



...So, in order to fully exorcise the ghost of those anti-semitic early church figures who banned believers from anything Jewish (and whose influence continues today), the church is going to have to significantly change its ways. To say "your people shall be my people" is meaningless unless you say "your festivals shall be my festivals".
]]> <![CDATA[worshipping on the sabbath]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=812 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:36:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=812


This excerpt from "Is it Wrong to worship on Sunday?" from the messianic website <URL url="http://www.totheends.com/questions4.htm#Sunday">To the Ends of the Earth

gives us a reasonable interpretation of what Yeshua intended for us:


Quote:Yeshua called himself the "Lord of the Sabbath" (Matt. 12:8). This was in a debate with the Pharisees about what is permitted and what is not on the Sabbath. By claiming to be the "Lord of the Sabbath" and "greater than the Temple" (vs. 6), Jesus boldly proclaimed himself to be God (since God is the one who established the Sabbath), and therefore that he, and not the Pharisees, has authority to determine what is and what is not acceptable on the Sabbath.



The early Jewish believers in Jesus continued to observe the Sabbath (resting from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset), and attend the synagogue on that day, but also held special believers' ("Christian") meetings on other days as well (Acts 2:46). Among the early Gentile believers, some followed this practice, with resting on the Sabbath, but others did not observe the Sabbath, and worshiped on whatever day or time was convenient to them (Rom. 14:5).



The reason they were able to do this, with Paul's approval, was that the Sabbath was never considered by the rabbis to be a requirement for Gentiles, but only for the Jews. Therefore the rabbis did not include Sabbath observance in the Laws of Noah (the laws that the rabbis believed God had given for Gentiles [see <URL url="http://www.totheends.com/questions.htm#Abraham1">What did Abraham know of the Law of God?]). This same line of thinking was followed by the early Jewish believers in Jesus. They omitted the Sabbath from the requirements for Gentile believers in Acts 15:20,29. This is part of the freedom that Gentile believers have in the Messiah. We can choose to rest and/or worship on the Sabbath, or on any other day. It's completely up to us.

Sabbath-keeping can be a legalistic trap that is easy to get caught up in. Remember, we are not trying to become Jewish....we are trying to become understanders and appropriators of all that is ours because of our Jewish origins.]]>


This excerpt from "Is it Wrong to worship on Sunday?" from the messianic website <URL url="http://www.totheends.com/questions4.htm#Sunday">To the Ends of the Earth

gives us a reasonable interpretation of what Yeshua intended for us:


Quote:Yeshua called himself the "Lord of the Sabbath" (Matt. 12:8). This was in a debate with the Pharisees about what is permitted and what is not on the Sabbath. By claiming to be the "Lord of the Sabbath" and "greater than the Temple" (vs. 6), Jesus boldly proclaimed himself to be God (since God is the one who established the Sabbath), and therefore that he, and not the Pharisees, has authority to determine what is and what is not acceptable on the Sabbath.



The early Jewish believers in Jesus continued to observe the Sabbath (resting from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset), and attend the synagogue on that day, but also held special believers' ("Christian") meetings on other days as well (Acts 2:46). Among the early Gentile believers, some followed this practice, with resting on the Sabbath, but others did not observe the Sabbath, and worshiped on whatever day or time was convenient to them (Rom. 14:5).



The reason they were able to do this, with Paul's approval, was that the Sabbath was never considered by the rabbis to be a requirement for Gentiles, but only for the Jews. Therefore the rabbis did not include Sabbath observance in the Laws of Noah (the laws that the rabbis believed God had given for Gentiles [see <URL url="http://www.totheends.com/questions.htm#Abraham1">What did Abraham know of the Law of God?]). This same line of thinking was followed by the early Jewish believers in Jesus. They omitted the Sabbath from the requirements for Gentile believers in Acts 15:20,29. This is part of the freedom that Gentile believers have in the Messiah. We can choose to rest and/or worship on the Sabbath, or on any other day. It's completely up to us.

Sabbath-keeping can be a legalistic trap that is easy to get caught up in. Remember, we are not trying to become Jewish....we are trying to become understanders and appropriators of all that is ours because of our Jewish origins.]]> <![CDATA[torah defined in relation to the church]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=810 Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:50:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=810
* Genesis (בראשית, Bereshit: "In the beginning...")

* Exodus (שמות, Shemot: "Names")

* Leviticus (ויקרא, Vayyiqra: "And he called...")

* Numbers (במדבר, Bamidbar: "In the desert...")

* Deuteronomy (דברים, Devarim: "Words", or "Discourses")



However, David Hargis (a messianic rabbi) says this:
Quote: 

Torah is the Hebrew word meaning teaching. It's root means to throw or shoot an arrow.  YHVH uses this word Torah in scripture to signify His Teaching to His people. The Teaching which G-d gave Moses (Moshe) is called the Torah of Moses, but this does not mean that Moses authored it, only that he received it from G-d.



When Torah is mentioned it is most often associated with the Torah of Moses, meaning the Torah, or Teaching, which God gave to Israel in the wilderness. However, YHVH uses the word Torah to signify His instructions throughout the Hebrew scriptures, including the Prophets and the Psalms. Since all of His Word is His Teaching, all of it is His Torah.



  1.  Torah is all the written Teaching of YHVH, from Genesis to Revelation, and that alone

  2. Torah is not the oral traditions or commentaries of men, whether Jewish or Christian

  3. Torah is holy, right and good; and useful for everyone who belongs to G-d



[<COLOR color="purple">his further comments on this subject can be read here:</COLOR> <URL url="http://www.messianic.com/articles/torah2.htm">http://www.messianic.com/articles/torah2.htm ]


<QUOTE author="restorah">
restorah Wrote:We should strive to be like Messiah. To love Him means that we will keep His commandments. What commandments, the very Words that were in the beginning and became flesh as Him that dwelt among us. His Torah is the covenant that built upon the others and was restored, renewed and build upon for David and Yeshua. No, we cannot keep all the commands. There are the ceremonial laws and so forth. But we can keep a vast amount that show us how to walk in the sanctification that Yeshau purchased to inhabit.



Yeshua brings us into sanctification, it is up to us to remain there. Torah is the standard by which we must reside within the cloud. Through Messiah, we are able to do this......Torah should be embraced as both the marriage contract (covenant is a much better word) and a user's manual. It was given with a Hebrew, not Greek, mindset and mandate. We should look at all of scripture and our thoughts and lifestyles from a Hebraic perspective.



[<COLOR color="purple">excerpted from this post: </COLOR><URL url="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1623&view=findpost&p=5444829"><LINK_TEXT text="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?sh ... &p=5444829">http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showt...dpost&p=5444829</LINK_TEXT> ]

So as Christians, how do we define (and respond to) "torah"? What is the difference between a believer who is "torah observant" and one who is not?]]>
* Genesis (בראשית, Bereshit: "In the beginning...")

* Exodus (שמות, Shemot: "Names")

* Leviticus (ויקרא, Vayyiqra: "And he called...")

* Numbers (במדבר, Bamidbar: "In the desert...")

* Deuteronomy (דברים, Devarim: "Words", or "Discourses")



However, David Hargis (a messianic rabbi) says this:
Quote: 

Torah is the Hebrew word meaning teaching. It's root means to throw or shoot an arrow.  YHVH uses this word Torah in scripture to signify His Teaching to His people. The Teaching which G-d gave Moses (Moshe) is called the Torah of Moses, but this does not mean that Moses authored it, only that he received it from G-d.



When Torah is mentioned it is most often associated with the Torah of Moses, meaning the Torah, or Teaching, which God gave to Israel in the wilderness. However, YHVH uses the word Torah to signify His instructions throughout the Hebrew scriptures, including the Prophets and the Psalms. Since all of His Word is His Teaching, all of it is His Torah.



  1.  Torah is all the written Teaching of YHVH, from Genesis to Revelation, and that alone

  2. Torah is not the oral traditions or commentaries of men, whether Jewish or Christian

  3. Torah is holy, right and good; and useful for everyone who belongs to G-d



[<COLOR color="purple">his further comments on this subject can be read here:</COLOR> <URL url="http://www.messianic.com/articles/torah2.htm">http://www.messianic.com/articles/torah2.htm ]


<QUOTE author="restorah">
restorah Wrote:We should strive to be like Messiah. To love Him means that we will keep His commandments. What commandments, the very Words that were in the beginning and became flesh as Him that dwelt among us. His Torah is the covenant that built upon the others and was restored, renewed and build upon for David and Yeshua. No, we cannot keep all the commands. There are the ceremonial laws and so forth. But we can keep a vast amount that show us how to walk in the sanctification that Yeshau purchased to inhabit.



Yeshua brings us into sanctification, it is up to us to remain there. Torah is the standard by which we must reside within the cloud. Through Messiah, we are able to do this......Torah should be embraced as both the marriage contract (covenant is a much better word) and a user's manual. It was given with a Hebrew, not Greek, mindset and mandate. We should look at all of scripture and our thoughts and lifestyles from a Hebraic perspective.



[<COLOR color="purple">excerpted from this post: </COLOR><URL url="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1623&view=findpost&p=5444829"><LINK_TEXT text="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?sh ... &p=5444829">http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showt...dpost&p=5444829</LINK_TEXT> ]

So as Christians, how do we define (and respond to) "torah"? What is the difference between a believer who is "torah observant" and one who is not?]]> <![CDATA[how did you first become aware of Jewish roots?]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=804 Wed, 01 Aug 2007 01:14:00 +0000 HelenaZF]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=804


I had no awareness of the concept of our Jewish roots as a new Christian. It was after being baptized in the Holy Spirit for a while that the Lord began to awaken me to the whole realization that the church did not just spring up out of nowhere in Acts. Here's how it happened for me.



I was in a women's bible study that met once a week. One of the song leaders had been impressed by the Lord to pray for Israel when she stumbled on an abandoned Jewish cemetery in one of her prayer walks in the woods. She formed an Israel folk dance group and invited me to participate. I had grown up doing Polish folk dancing, so this seemed like another fun activity, and enthusiastically joined the group. I soon learned that there was more to it...the dances were prayers, and worship, and because of the leaders love for Israel, I wanted to know more and understand more as well.



She was also a bible teacher and would go to various house bible studies and do a presentation of Moses Tabernacle with a scale model that her husband had built for her on a 4x8 piece of plywood. She asked me to go with her and help her lead a music worship time before her teachings. We would load that heavy model into the back of her stationwagon and take it into churches and people's homes. That's when I began to learn messianic songs and learned to love the Tabernacle. It seemed each time the lesson was presented, God revealed something new in it for me. It was the beginning of awareness of all things Hebraic for me.



Interestingly, nearly 20 years later, I found myself involved in a ministry that toured the country presenting an evening of worship called "The Ark of His Presence". For that presentation, I built a traveling set of the <URL url="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1624">Tabernacle furniture, and we would recreate the Tabernacle in each venue we visited. I didn't create a menorah, though, because we used the <URL url="http://www.zionfire.com/SevenSpirits.html">Seven Spirits banners as the candlestick of the Tabernacle. The program explained how God fulfilled the prophetic meanings of each furniture piece through Yeshua and even into the Tabernacle of David and the heavenly Tabernacle in Revelation.



It occurred to me during this time, that the last 20 years, God had been preparing me to do this presentation. We had taken banners to the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem to participate in the Feast pageantry several times. Even the building of the Seven Spirits banners was done years previously....but their destiny was for this presentation. It all came together in "The Ark of His Presence." That script and pageantry brought people face to face with the Jewishness of Jesus, and the thread of the Covenant that stretched seamlessly from Moses to the modern believers and even into Eternity. It was an incredible, out-of-time experience to be a part of that. I don't know that I will ever participate in anything again that will have that same sense of eternal significance.]]>


I had no awareness of the concept of our Jewish roots as a new Christian. It was after being baptized in the Holy Spirit for a while that the Lord began to awaken me to the whole realization that the church did not just spring up out of nowhere in Acts. Here's how it happened for me.



I was in a women's bible study that met once a week. One of the song leaders had been impressed by the Lord to pray for Israel when she stumbled on an abandoned Jewish cemetery in one of her prayer walks in the woods. She formed an Israel folk dance group and invited me to participate. I had grown up doing Polish folk dancing, so this seemed like another fun activity, and enthusiastically joined the group. I soon learned that there was more to it...the dances were prayers, and worship, and because of the leaders love for Israel, I wanted to know more and understand more as well.



She was also a bible teacher and would go to various house bible studies and do a presentation of Moses Tabernacle with a scale model that her husband had built for her on a 4x8 piece of plywood. She asked me to go with her and help her lead a music worship time before her teachings. We would load that heavy model into the back of her stationwagon and take it into churches and people's homes. That's when I began to learn messianic songs and learned to love the Tabernacle. It seemed each time the lesson was presented, God revealed something new in it for me. It was the beginning of awareness of all things Hebraic for me.



Interestingly, nearly 20 years later, I found myself involved in a ministry that toured the country presenting an evening of worship called "The Ark of His Presence". For that presentation, I built a traveling set of the <URL url="http://zionfirefriends.com/index.php?showtopic=1624">Tabernacle furniture, and we would recreate the Tabernacle in each venue we visited. I didn't create a menorah, though, because we used the <URL url="http://www.zionfire.com/SevenSpirits.html">Seven Spirits banners as the candlestick of the Tabernacle. The program explained how God fulfilled the prophetic meanings of each furniture piece through Yeshua and even into the Tabernacle of David and the heavenly Tabernacle in Revelation.



It occurred to me during this time, that the last 20 years, God had been preparing me to do this presentation. We had taken banners to the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem to participate in the Feast pageantry several times. Even the building of the Seven Spirits banners was done years previously....but their destiny was for this presentation. It all came together in "The Ark of His Presence." That script and pageantry brought people face to face with the Jewishness of Jesus, and the thread of the Covenant that stretched seamlessly from Moses to the modern believers and even into Eternity. It was an incredible, out-of-time experience to be a part of that. I don't know that I will ever participate in anything again that will have that same sense of eternal significance.]]> <![CDATA[it is about our birthright in Messiah]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=802 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:26:00 +0000 restorah]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=802
Okay, I realize it's been, like, forever, since I was online typing. That would be true for many things I should be typing and have lost track of for this season.



Anyway, to add to the discussion at hand, the largest misconstrued aspect to this "movement" is the Jewish aspect of it all. What I mean is this: We are not trying to get to know our Jewish roots, but our birthright in Messiah as a nation of priests and kings. As we cross over into His kingdom, we leave behind our Gentile, Pagan, Easter Religions, Agnostic Idealogies, and, even our Jewishness. We cannot ask the church to replace a lie of who they have been taught that they are as the Body and replace that lie with another lie.



Our roots go much deeper and, thank YHVH, much healthier than Jewish or Judaism. We must crossover to become the household of faith in Messiah as the whole nation (one new man in Messiah) Isreal. We share in the commonwealth, by the way, and have not replaced anyone or anything. YHVH is huge, I think He can handle a fewmore branches that He grafts in where He chooses.



Back to the subject. The religion of Judaism is riddled with both richness and traditions that are pitfalls that take our attention away from Yeshua. Think of the church's affinity to focus on the warfare of intercession instead of the One whom we are to be interceding. Christianity, in general, provides many outlets for the average person's attention that makes it easy or comfortable. More often then not, those very avenues of acceptance are the avenues that lead our notion to seek sensationalism or a sense of belonging away from worship or Messiah. These are not new concepts, we have inherited them from our fathers. The Jewish (which is a word that was only used since the Middle ages and is a derivative of the word Yehuda or Judah) religion, or Judaism, is just that, a religion, not a relationship. It has replaced relationship with traditions and man made rules and doctrines.



Whereas, the correlation of faith comes into play with a relationship with the Creator. The true Israelite is only that if the dots are connected in regard to Torah and now, through Messiah. To not have the proper context of an origination point, Torha, we have a miscallibrated compas and are searching or worshipping in the wrong direction or wrong God.



The Jewishness of our faith in Christianity has value, but we are instruced to test the spirit that is around us so that we will know of Whom or whom it is from. I am wonderfully glad to know that people are led out of the doldrums of Christianity into a righteous relationship with YHVH through Yeshua. However, it is regretful situation when a person leaves one dead work for another.



The richness of Judaism is exceptional. Yet, the bling should not defer our attention to the Originator of it all. He is calling us back to the pure Word of Truth. Our beginning point is Messiah of the tribe of Judah, as Judean, not necessarily a Jew.



Type at you soon!

Ben]]>
Okay, I realize it's been, like, forever, since I was online typing. That would be true for many things I should be typing and have lost track of for this season.



Anyway, to add to the discussion at hand, the largest misconstrued aspect to this "movement" is the Jewish aspect of it all. What I mean is this: We are not trying to get to know our Jewish roots, but our birthright in Messiah as a nation of priests and kings. As we cross over into His kingdom, we leave behind our Gentile, Pagan, Easter Religions, Agnostic Idealogies, and, even our Jewishness. We cannot ask the church to replace a lie of who they have been taught that they are as the Body and replace that lie with another lie.



Our roots go much deeper and, thank YHVH, much healthier than Jewish or Judaism. We must crossover to become the household of faith in Messiah as the whole nation (one new man in Messiah) Isreal. We share in the commonwealth, by the way, and have not replaced anyone or anything. YHVH is huge, I think He can handle a fewmore branches that He grafts in where He chooses.



Back to the subject. The religion of Judaism is riddled with both richness and traditions that are pitfalls that take our attention away from Yeshua. Think of the church's affinity to focus on the warfare of intercession instead of the One whom we are to be interceding. Christianity, in general, provides many outlets for the average person's attention that makes it easy or comfortable. More often then not, those very avenues of acceptance are the avenues that lead our notion to seek sensationalism or a sense of belonging away from worship or Messiah. These are not new concepts, we have inherited them from our fathers. The Jewish (which is a word that was only used since the Middle ages and is a derivative of the word Yehuda or Judah) religion, or Judaism, is just that, a religion, not a relationship. It has replaced relationship with traditions and man made rules and doctrines.



Whereas, the correlation of faith comes into play with a relationship with the Creator. The true Israelite is only that if the dots are connected in regard to Torah and now, through Messiah. To not have the proper context of an origination point, Torha, we have a miscallibrated compas and are searching or worshipping in the wrong direction or wrong God.



The Jewishness of our faith in Christianity has value, but we are instruced to test the spirit that is around us so that we will know of Whom or whom it is from. I am wonderfully glad to know that people are led out of the doldrums of Christianity into a righteous relationship with YHVH through Yeshua. However, it is regretful situation when a person leaves one dead work for another.



The richness of Judaism is exceptional. Yet, the bling should not defer our attention to the Originator of it all. He is calling us back to the pure Word of Truth. Our beginning point is Messiah of the tribe of Judah, as Judean, not necessarily a Jew.



Type at you soon!

Ben]]> <![CDATA[confused about the feasts]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=801 Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:13:00 +0000 etherea]]> https://zionfire.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=801
I haven't posted anything for a long time, but I like to come and read often. I was really happy to see this new forum, because these are things I have questions about.



The topic about the celebrating the feasts has confused me a little, but I didn't want to mess that discussion up since I think what I have to ask kind of goes in a different direction.



It seems to me that a Christian should celebrate the feasts in the Bible, because God said so, but I 'm confused about how to celebrate them. I mean, do Christians celebrate them in the same way and at the same time as the Jewish people? Or can they be celebrated in a different way or time?



Should they be celebrated along with the Christian Feasts, or instead of Easter and Pentecost, for instance? Is Good Friday the same thing as the Day of Atonement? Or maybe should some parts of the bible feasts be integrated in the church holidays? Maybe Christians should point out the fulfilled prophecies when they celebrate them, or something like that. I'm just not clear on how this all should work. I want to do what's right and honors God, I just don't know how to go about it. Is it something I could do just in my own family?



There isn't anyone around me or in my church that is interested in Jewish things, so there isn't anyone for me to ask. I've brought up the subject with my pastor on occasion, but he doesn't seem to have any more clue about things than I do.]]>
I haven't posted anything for a long time, but I like to come and read often. I was really happy to see this new forum, because these are things I have questions about.



The topic about the celebrating the feasts has confused me a little, but I didn't want to mess that discussion up since I think what I have to ask kind of goes in a different direction.



It seems to me that a Christian should celebrate the feasts in the Bible, because God said so, but I 'm confused about how to celebrate them. I mean, do Christians celebrate them in the same way and at the same time as the Jewish people? Or can they be celebrated in a different way or time?



Should they be celebrated along with the Christian Feasts, or instead of Easter and Pentecost, for instance? Is Good Friday the same thing as the Day of Atonement? Or maybe should some parts of the bible feasts be integrated in the church holidays? Maybe Christians should point out the fulfilled prophecies when they celebrate them, or something like that. I'm just not clear on how this all should work. I want to do what's right and honors God, I just don't know how to go about it. Is it something I could do just in my own family?



There isn't anyone around me or in my church that is interested in Jewish things, so there isn't anyone for me to ask. I've brought up the subject with my pastor on occasion, but he doesn't seem to have any more clue about things than I do.]]>